Last updated: Tue May 08 22:59:55 2007
Messages: 1038
The North American Network Operators Group
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01/30/01 Scalable Mail solution with NAS Patrick Hollowell
01/30/01 Month for DNS problems Sean Donelan
01/30/01 calling attention to servers bmanning
01/30/01 Pingable IPs on backbones? Christopher A. Woodfield
01/30/01 More 6509 problems... Alison Gudgeon
01/30/01 Re: CIDR and aggregation offenders Hank Nussbacher
01/30/01 Uunet changing Hank Nussbacher
01/29/01 BGP and anycast Swede
01/29/01 Sprint reports fewest number of FCC repo Sean Donelan
01/29/01 Re: [Fwd: Monitoring highly redundant op Justin W. Newton
01/29/01 Cat. 6509 - Foundry Server Iron Interope Alison Gudgeon
01/29/01 Hanging SMTP sessions... Jason Blakey
01/28/01 Anyone from nasa.gov around? Jay R. Ashworth
01/28/01 Greg, you're tryin' too hard Jay R. Ashworth
01/28/01 Six million ways to crash Sean Donelan
01/27/01 Before everyone asks me at once - Genuit Elizabeth Schwartz
01/27/01 RE: How (un)common is lack of DNS server Roeland Meyer
01/27/01 Blackouts again? Roy
01/27/01 Hidden name servers? Sean Donelan
01/27/01 sorry to ruin several of your evenings.. Paul A Vixie
01/28/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Paul Vixie
Message not available 01/28/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Jay R. Ashworth
01/28/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Jeffrey Meltzer
Message not available 01/28/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Jay R. Ashworth
01/28/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Vincent Power
01/28/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Paul Vixie
01/29/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin jlewis
01/29/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Marius Strom
01/30/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin jamie rishaw
01/30/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin jlewis
01/30/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin poptix
01/30/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Stephen Stuart
01/30/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Christopher L. Morrow
01/30/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Valdis.Kletnieks
01/30/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Shawn McMahon
01/30/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin bmanning
01/30/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Jared Mauch
01/30/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Christopher L. Morrow
01/30/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Jared Mauch
01/30/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Christopher L. Morrow
01/30/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Steve Sobol
01/30/01 Re: [NANOG] Re: sorry to ruin several of Pim van Riezen
01/30/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Christopher L. Morrow
01/28/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Charles Sprickman
01/28/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Paul A Vixie
01/28/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Thomas Kernen
01/28/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Paul Vixie
01/28/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Marc MERLIN
01/29/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Eric A. Hall
01/29/01 Re: BIND-9 vs. BIND-8 config incompatabi Greg A. Woods
01/29/01 Re: BIND-9 vs. BIND-8 config incompatabi poptix
01/28/01 RE: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Roeland Meyer
01/28/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin jamie rishaw
01/28/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin Tony Rall
01/28/01 Re: sorry to ruin several of your evenin James R Grinter
01/27/01 Re: DNS availability richb
01/26/01 How common is lack of DNS server diversi Sean Donelan
01/27/01 RE: How common is lack of DNS server div Roeland Meyer
01/27/01 RE: How common is lack of DNS server div Tony Rall
01/27/01 RE: How common is lack of DNS server div Roeland Meyer
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Tony Rall
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Shawn McMahon
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Havard Eidnes
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Greg A. Woods
01/27/01 RE: How common is lack of DNS server div Tony Rall
01/27/01 RE: How common is lack of DNS server div Roeland Meyer
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Adam McKenna
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Havard.Eidnes
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div bmanning
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Jay R. Ashworth
Message not available 01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Jay R. Ashworth
01/28/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div bmanning
01/27/01 RE: How common is lack of DNS server div Sean Donelan
01/27/01 RE: How common is lack of DNS server div Roeland Meyer
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Adam McKenna
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Shawn McMahon
01/27/01 RE: How common is lack of DNS server div Roeland Meyer
01/27/01 RE: How (un)common is lack of DNS server Greg A. Woods
Message not available 01/27/01 Re: How (un)common is lack of DNS server Jay R. Ashworth
01/27/01 RE: How common is lack of DNS server div Roeland Meyer
01/27/01 RE: How common is lack of DNS server div Roeland Meyer
01/27/01 RE: How common is lack of DNS server div Greg A. Woods
Message not available 01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Jay R. Ashworth
01/27/01 RE: How common is lack of DNS server div Roeland Meyer
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Adam McKenna
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Simon Lyall
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Quark Physics
01/27/01 Naming drivel (was: RE: How common is la Joshua Goodall
01/27/01 RE: How common is lack of DNS server div Roeland Meyer
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Adam McKenna
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Shawn McMahon
01/27/01 Re: How common is lack of DNS server div Pete Ehlke
01/27/01 RE: How common is lack of DNS server div Roeland Meyer
01/26/01 Static IP distribution Kris S. Amundson
01/26/01 Proactive steps to prevent DDOS? Sean Donelan
01/26/01 Anyone using Cingular wireless? (IXO/TA Alan Clegg
01/25/01 Estimated Time To Repair (was Re: Histor Sean Donelan
01/25/01 traffic stats Ian A Finlay
01/25/01 microsoft explains. again. Marc Slemko
01/25/01 Incease in latency to TLD servers Sean Donelan
01/25/01 The unwashed and unaggregated Patrick Greenwell
01/25/01 Tenure (was Re: MS explains) Sean Donelan
01/25/01 charitable organization for the shrinkag smd
01/25/01 OUTAGE: Qwest - problem? Sean Donelan
01/25/01 OUTAGE: Earthlink - more nationwide diff Sean Donelan
01/25/01 msdn.microsoft.com still won't resolve Chris Davis
01/25/01 History: lengthy outages Sean Donelan
01/25/01 RE: SSH on other Cisco models Roger Choate
01/25/01 Microsoft Explains Site Access Issues Sean Donelan
01/24/01 From Microsoft's site Jeremy Randall
01/24/01 MS explains Eric A. Hall
01/24/01 Microsoft DNS outage Joseph T. Klein
01/24/01 Network diversity Software diversity Sean Donelan
01/24/01 MS DNS Joe Blanchard
01/24/01 Kick em while they're down (was Re: Micr Sean Donelan
01/24/01 peer "sanity" filters - best practices? David P. Maynard
01/24/01 Monitoring highly redundant operations Sean Donelan
01/24/01 Re: Monitoring highly redundant operatio Howard C. Berkowitz
01/25/01 Re: Monitoring highly redundant operatio Greg A. Woods
01/25/01 Re: Monitoring highly redundant operatio Howard C. Berkowitz
01/24/01 Re: CAIS DSL failure: lessons in how not Howard C. Berkowitz
01/24/01 Microsoft starts to limp back onto the I Sean Donelan
01/24/01 More intelligent MS/DNS article. BillT
01/24/01 m$ blames icann Dan Hollis
01/24/01 Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Sean Donelan
Message not available 01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Henry Yen
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Chris Cappuccio
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Simon Lockhart
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Daniel Roesen
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Stephen J. Wilcox
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Eric A. Hall
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Andy
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Alex Pilosov
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Steven J. Sobol
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Scott Gifford
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN jamie rishaw
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Scott Gifford
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Jim Duncan
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Wojtek Zlobicki
01/24/01 RE: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Roeland Meyer
01/24/01 RE: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Greg A. Woods
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Henry Yen
01/25/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Greg A. Woods
01/25/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Morris Allen
01/25/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Adrian Chadd
01/25/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Greg A. Woods
01/24/01 RE: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Mathew Butler
01/24/01 RE: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Tim Wolfe
01/25/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Steve Sobol
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Richard A. Steenbergen
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Henry Yen
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Andrew Partan
01/24/01 RE: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Matt Levine
01/25/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Bill Woodcock
01/25/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Christian Nielsen
01/25/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN John Payne
01/25/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN poptix
01/25/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Patrick W. Gilmore
01/25/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN poptix
01/25/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Greg A. Woods
01/24/01 RE: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Irwin Lazar
01/24/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Steven M. Bellovin
01/25/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Henry Yen
01/25/01 RE: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Roeland Meyer
01/25/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Richard A. Steenbergen
01/25/01 Re: Microsoft spokesperson blames ICANN Valdis.Kletnieks
01/24/01 What is going on in the PAC NW (Microsof SMcGrath
01/24/01 [Possibly OT] Need to Rent/Lease a Core Karyn Ulriksen
01/24/01 ATT Broadband / RoadRunner Routing Failu Daniel Senie
01/24/01 [OT]: Involuntary outages may start at 7 Kavi, Prabhu
01/24/01 Labeling and naming Kurt Erik Lindqvist
01/24/01 RE: Labeling and naming Przemyslaw Karwasiecki
01/24/01 Re: Labeling and naming Michael Shields
01/25/01 Re: Labeling and naming Matt Zimmerman
01/25/01 RE: Labeling and naming Jon Stanley
01/24/01 Re: Labeling and naming Patrick Greenwell
01/25/01 Re: Labeling and naming Kurt Erik Lindqvist
01/24/01 Re: Labeling and naming John Kristoff
01/25/01 Re: Labeling and naming Kurt Erik Lindqvist
01/24/01 RE: Labeling and naming Frank Coluccio
01/24/01 RE: Labeling and naming Owen DeLong
01/24/01 RE: Labeling and naming Jason Lixfeld
01/30/01 Re: Labeling and naming Sean Donelan
01/24/01 Great job AT&T (re: Microsoft problems) Sean Donelan
Message not available 01/24/01 Re: Great job AT&T (re: Microsoft proble Mike Lewinski
01/24/01 Re: Great job AT&T (re: Microsoft proble Stephen J. Wilcox
01/24/01 Re: Great job AT&T (re: Microsoft proble Jeff Frost
01/24/01 Re: Great job AT&T (re: Microsoft proble Charles Sprickman
01/24/01 Re: Great job AT&T (re: Microsoft proble Valdis.Kletnieks
01/24/01 Re: Great job AT&T (re: Microsoft proble Tony Rall
01/24/01 Re: Great job AT&T (re: Microsoft proble Jeff Frost
01/24/01 Re: Great job AT&T (re: Microsoft proble poptix
01/24/01 RE: Great job AT&T (re: Microsoft proble Chris Davis
01/24/01 RE: Great job AT&T (re: Microsoft proble Roeland Meyer
01/24/01 Re: Great job AT&T (re: Microsoft proble Richard A. Steenbergen
01/24/01 RE: Great job AT&T (re: Microsoft proble Roeland Meyer
01/24/01 Re: Great job AT&T (re: Microsoft proble Steve Sobol
01/25/01 RE: Great job AT&T (re: Microsoft proble Roeland Meyer
01/24/01 Earthlink - nationwide problems Sean Donelan
01/24/01 Name server problems? or did Microsoft f Sean Donelan
01/24/01 MAE-ATM now supports "best effort" PVCs Simon Lockhart
01/23/01 Broadwing Fiber cut, El Paso, TX Majdi S. Abbas
01/23/01 Tricky BGP into IGP Question Tim Wolfe
01/23/01 clue for the clueless please Peter Galbavy
01/23/01 Re: Involuntary outages may start at 7am Henry R. Linneweh
01/22/01 Maintenance Windows for Networks Spannin tex
01/22/01 Re: Wierd Route (fwd) Richard A. Steenbergen
01/22/01 Re: Wierd Route Richard A. Steenbergen
01/20/01 The Pillsbury Doughboy vs. Engineers Jeff.Hodges
01/20/01 Inter-provider communications (Re: nobod Sean Donelan
01/20/01 Re: nobody @home Daniel L. Golding
01/20/01 Re: Cisco PIX abt
01/19/01 Sprint / C&W peering issues? jlewis
01/19/01 Troubles inside ALTER.NET? Vladimir Litovka
01/19/01 Re: Announcement: RIPE Whois Database Ve Nipper, Arnold
01/18/01 Too big to fail? Sean Donelan
01/18/01 California controlled service interrupti Sean Donelan
01/18/01 Power and Heat Analysis for Equipment Kevin Facinelli
01/18/01 Second, make that Third day of rolling b Matthew Kaufman
01/18/01 Rolling blackouts and CAISO status Richard A. Steenbergen
01/18/01 Solarmax effects Shawn McMahon
01/18/01 SOLARMAX and Power Interruptions Karyn Ulriksen
01/18/01 time zones Matthew Kaufman
01/18/01 RE: Second day of rolling blackouts star Matthew Kaufman
01/18/01 Montreal power failure (north america) Sean Donelan
01/17/01 Sprint Pennsauken.. Matt Levine
01/17/01 message from California Governor's Offic Sean Donelan
01/17/01 RE: California regulators ordered rollin Roeland Meyer
01/17/01 Backbone recommendations / Cleardata lon Pete Ashdown
01/17/01 DOJ guidelines for electronic surveillan Chip Sharp
01/16/01 IPSectarianism Dave Wardle, Critical Networks, Inc.
01/16/01 Forcasts, why won't anyone believe them? Sean Donelan
01/16/01 Re: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t Jeff Cours
01/16/01 Re: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t Brian
01/16/01 Re: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t Brian Wallingford
01/16/01 Re: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t Richard A. Steenbergen
01/16/01 Re: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t John Fraizer
01/16/01 RE: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t Roeland Meyer
01/16/01 Re: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t Chris Adams
01/16/01 Re: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t Alex
01/17/01 Re: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t Peter Bierman
01/17/01 Re: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t Valdis.Kletnieks
01/17/01 Re: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t Marshall Eubanks
01/17/01 RE: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t Chris Beggy
01/17/01 RE: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t Brian Wallingford
01/17/01 RE: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t Timothy J. Salo
01/16/01 Re: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t Sean Donelan
01/17/01 RE: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t Dave Rand
01/17/01 Re: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t David Lesher
01/17/01 Re: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t David Lesher
01/18/01 Re: Forcasts, why won't anyone believe t abender
01/16/01 Re: [Possible OT] California, and runnin Sean Donelan
01/16/01 Re: [Possible OT] California, and runnin Spencer.Wood
01/16/01 Re: [Possible OT] California, and runnin Richard A. Steenbergen
01/16/01 [Possible OT] California, and running of Matt Clauson
01/16/01 Re: [Possible OT] California, and runnin John Fraizer
01/16/01 Re: [Possible OT] California, and runnin Jerry Scharf
01/16/01 Re: [Possible OT] California, and runnin Wayne Bouchard
01/16/01 RE: [Possible OT] California, and runnin Karyn Ulriksen
01/16/01 Re: [Possible OT] California, and runnin David Lesher
01/16/01 Re: [Possible OT] California, and runnin Matthew Kaufman
01/16/01 Re: [Possible OT] California, and runnin Sean Morrison
01/16/01 Re: [Possible OT] California, and runnin Bill Woodcock
01/16/01 Re: [Possible OT] California, and runnin Dalvenjah FoxFire
01/16/01 Re: [Possible OT] California, and runnin Bill Woodcock
01/16/01 RE: [Possible OT] California, and runnin Richard Welty
01/16/01 California -- STAGE 3 POWER EMERGENCY... Matt Clauson
01/15/01 peermaker and brain spikes Rick Irving
01/15/01 Favorites (Re: UUNET peering policy) Sean Donelan
01/15/01 RE: Access Numbers [OT] Scott Madley
01/15/01 Hotel Room Block Rate for NANOG 21 Expir Carol Wadsworth
01/15/01 I wonder if this is why above.net took t Henry R. Linneweh
01/15/01 Access Numbers John Paul Martin
01/13/01 Peering Disputes marcellus
01/13/01 RE: How does one make not playing nice w Roeland Meyer
01/13/01 RE: How does one make not playing nice w Mathew Butler
01/13/01 BGP Filtering Jon Stanley
01/12/01 Cogent? Timothy Brown
01/12/01 route reflectors Tony Mumm
01/12/01 Tiara v. ASC Wilson, David
01/12/01 OT: Go-Karting in Montreal Alex Rubenstein
01/12/01 FBI and new year's eve DOS Chris Beggy
01/12/01 Online BGP study material for newbies Lionel Lauer
01/12/01 FW: BGP keepalive/holdtime at GigE excha Lane Patterson
01/11/01 Providers in Japan Jason Whiting
01/11/01 California CAL-ISO 1500 MW rolling black Sean Donelan
01/11/01 MPLS deployment Bala Rajagopalan
01/11/01 California hits stage 3 power emergency Dalvenjah FoxFire
01/11/01 MRTG and BB for sensorArray? Mike Jackson
01/11/01 IPIP-tunnel with 1500 MTU Mikael Abrahamsson
01/11/01 should use firewall when peering? bgp4cn
01/10/01 Exchange point peering Robbie Harrell
01/10/01 IP whois info Hank Nussbacher
01/09/01 Re: OT - VPN help M.I. Deen
01/09/01 Re: DNS requests from 209.67.50.203 Steven M. Bellovin
01/09/01 multiple origin ASes abha
01/09/01 PSI as transit carrier Jason Lixfeld
01/09/01 Who is in NY ? (was: IX-'s) Jan-Ahrent Czmok
01/09/01 IX's Roeland Meyer
01/09/01 Original peering policies (com-priv arch Sean Donelan
01/09/01 net.terrorism Sabri Berisha
01/08/01 UUNET peering policy Barrows, Jeff
01/08/01 Operate until failure Sean Donelan
01/07/01 SprintNAP Simon Lockhart
01/06/01 Re: Exchange point networks Sean Donelan
01/06/01 [no subject] deen
01/05/01 Network Solutions Bilking ex-customers Daniel Senie
01/05/01 CANTAT2 break? problems? Jim Mercer
01/05/01 Traffic Analizer Jeremy Furr
01/05/01 The Cidr Report Tony Bates
01/05/01 Information Sharing Kevin Facinelli
01/05/01 as-path filtering Marc Williams
01/05/01 We want to give you a Brand New Free Sat GetFreeSatellite13
01/05/01 Pictures of Schenectady NY CO flood? Sean Donelan
01/04/01 BGP Persistent Route Oscillation Conditi Clayton Fiske
01/04/01 ADSL Info deen
01/04/01 Is there anyone clueful at Conxion ? Bruce Campbell
01/04/01 RE: florida ix(en) facing south Barrows, Jeff
01/04/01 FYI... Danny McPherson
01/04/01 FTP with authentication to RADIUS Michael Medwid
01/04/01 Re: FTP with authentication to RADIUS Steven J. Sobol
01/04/01 Re: FTP with authentication to RADIUS Hugh Irvine
01/05/01 RE: FTP with authentication to RADIUS Roeland Meyer
01/05/01 Re: FTP with authentication to RADIUS Andrew Brown
01/05/01 Re: FTP with authentication to RADIUS Brian W.
01/05/01 Re: FTP with authentication to RADIUS Steve Sobol
01/05/01 Re: FTP with authentication to RADIUS Greg A. Woods
01/05/01 Re: FTP with authentication to RADIUS Andrew Brown
01/05/01 Re: FTP with authentication to RADIUS Charles Sprickman
01/05/01 Re: FTP with authentication to RADIUS Brian W.
01/06/01 Re: FTP with authentication to RADIUS Adrian Chadd
01/06/01 Re: FTP with authentication to RADIUS Shawn McMahon
01/05/01 Re: FTP with authentication to RADIUS Adam McKenna
01/05/01 RE: FTP with authentication to RADIUS Roeland Meyer
01/04/01 fwd ppml: ARIN asking about SWIP procedu Bennett Todd
01/04/01 Follow-up to "EGP/Peering survey" abha
01/03/01 SLC power failures Sean Donelan
01/03/01 RE: Dialup congestion and winter weather Roeland Meyer
01/02/01 @Home peering contact? Alex
01/02/01 ARIN Person... dies
01/02/01 SSM vs MSDP (was: IP Multicasting) Bill Nickless
01/02/01 Globally unique versus globally routable Sean Donelan
01/02/01 Internet metrics III jamie rishaw
01/02/01 Further Internet Metrics Eric Lemond
01/02/01 NANOG 21 -- Registration Open Carol Wadsworth
01/02/01 RE: public route servers Jeremy Furr
01/02/01 Packeteer Hank Nussbacher
01/02/01 Re: Dialup congestion and winter weather Sean Donelan
01/01/01 IP Multicasting deen
01/01/01 How can we provide enough IP address to Yu Ning
01/01/01 Re: RFC1918 addresses to permit in for V John Hawkinson