North American Network Operators Group
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Re: [arin-announce] IPv4 Address Space (fwd)

  • From: Chris Parker
  • Date: Thu Oct 30 20:31:41 2003 
At 03:25 PM 10/30/2003, Alex Yuriev wrote:
> > > to the ES, he's filtering out packets that are causing him
> > > problems directly, as the IS.
> >And since the IS is not the ES, it SHOULD NOT be filtering based on content
> >since it is NOT IS's content. Again, *force* ES to filter and hold it
> >responsible for not doing it.
> Do you have a generator in your colo/server space? Why? To follow your
> logic out, should you not simply be *forcing* the Electric Company to
> provide power and hold it responsible for not doing so? ( Hmm, no
> that is slightly different as you are direct customer ).

I am so glad that you used that example.

The way currently people propose everyone operates is equivalent to a
company that transmits AC to customer deciding that some part of the AC
waveform is "harmful" to its equipment, and therefore should be filtered
out. Of course, no one bothers to tell the customer that the filter exists,
or what is being filtered, or when, or how.
So, electric grids do not have any mechanisms to disconnect from other
grids ( ie, stop "transiting" their electricity ) if one is doing something
that causes problems on the local grid?  As a customer I would very
much like my provider to filter out waveforms that would prevent their
ability to provide me with my service.

If the issue is how to communicate what is being filtered to the customer,
then simply need to find a way to do that.  The solution to "it is hard to
communicate what is being filtered to the end-users" is not "oh well,
we won't filter anything".  At least not as I see it.

Supposing a network *did* provide a way to inform customers what was
being filtered.  Would you still object to the filtering?


Another excellent example - UPS will not remove that. The shipper will.

How?  I'm the shipper.  I put the RF generating device into package and
give it to UPS.  They will do nothing to remove it or not ship it?
It is only up to me to not do it?  Al Qaeda would love that to be
true I'm sure.  :)


The first part of any legal agreement establishes the parties subject to it.
That is exactly what you are missing while being an IS.

There is a chain of agreements connecting you to the source/dest of
any traffic on your network.  Even if it is a customer of a customer
of a customer, you have a chain of agreements that establishes you
as a party.

In what scenario would there not be a chain of agreements to connect
you as a party?

-Chris
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