North American Network Operators Group

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Re: Motion for a new POST NSF AUP

  • From: William Allen Simpson
  • Date: Mon Oct 16 05:06:37 1995

> From: "Theodore Ts'o" <[email protected]>
> I disagree, strongly.  I think anti-spam messages, sent to the
> postmasters of the respective ISP's that provide service to the
> spammers, is perfectly acceptable.  Otherwise, there is no cost to the
> ISP's for providing service to the spammers.
Good idea!  I've only been sending to the perpetrator (which sometimes

> As a matter of course, whenever I receive a spam, I will generally send
> a complaint to postmaster at the originating site, or perhaps to the
> ISP, if I can determine it.  In fact, I'm thinking about automating this
> procedure, to decrease the amount of time that it takes for me to send
> the complaint.

I also have a template file which I use to save time.

How do you automate finding the postmaster and ISP?  I cannot seem to
figure it out.

In the case of the "Janet Dove" spam, the two different months included
different headers:

        Received: (from [email protected]) by (8.6.12/8.6.10) id SAA06849; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 18:27:50 -0400
        From: [email protected] (Janet Dove)
        Newsgroups: info.ietf.isoc,info.ietf.njm,info.ietf.smtp,info.inet.access,info.isode,info.jethro-tull,info.labmgr,info.mach,,info.nets,info.nsf.grants,info.nsfnet.cert,info.nsfnet.status,info.nupop,info.nysersnmp,info.osf,info.pem-de
        Subject: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 315+ Popular USA Titles
        Date: Fri, 08 Sep 1995 18:28:18 -0500
        Organization: Association of Overseas Students, Eastern Region
        Message-ID: <[email protected]>

        Received: from [] ( []) by (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA02068; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 04:28:53 -0400
        X-Sender: [email protected]s.ok (Unverified)
        Message-Id: <[email protected][]>
        Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 05:03:27 -0500
        To: [email protected]s.ok
        From: [email protected]s.ok (You will
         get a quick reply via email within 1 business day of receipt of the info
         request form below.)
        Subject: *new* reply info: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 300+ Popular USA

As you can see, in the second they were better at hiding!  But email to
janetdove didn't bounce....  And the Received tells the IP address.

As to authentication, the headers indicate "pm-", probably a PortMaster.
I _know_ PortMasters have both PAP and CHAP authentication.

> Other people have talked about enforcement; as near as I can tell, this
> is the only kind of enforcement on the Internet that will really work.
Yes, email reply is a good start.  But, I would like to add another kind.
And the ISP's had better listen up:

The other kind is a lawsuit.  It costs about $50 for an individual to
file, and $$$ (thousands) for a company to defend.  And for that same
$50, I can sue _both_ the perpetrator, and an uncooperative ISP.

If the ISP fails to authenticate, and/or fails to log and identify the
perpetrator, they are clearly negligent!

> P.S.  Perhaps ISP's should consider writing into their customer's
> contracts some legal language saying that if the ISP receives too many
> complaints, that the customer is liable for the cost of processing the
> complaints caused by that customer --- the ISP can decide to waive the
> fee if the complaints are caused by some mail forgery or other
> legitimate misunderstanding.
We talked about this last year.  If they haven't done it by now, they
have only themselves to blame....

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