North American Network Operators Group
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Re: the Intercage mess

  • From: Stephen Sprunk
  • Date: Wed Sep 24 23:35:37 2008
William Pitcock wrote:
On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 19:28 -0700, Paul Ferguson wrote:
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:24 PM, Randy Bush <[email protected]> wrote:
John Bambenek wrote:
When there is no law to speak of all that is left is tribal justice.
this way lies lynch mobs

shall we at least apply a vernier of civilization
I think that _more_than_reasonable_ background research, historical record, etc. have met the qualifications of "civilized vernier". The outcry was, and is not, arbitrary.

No, but forcing them offline now that they are taking a new approach to
handling abuse is ridiculous.

Intercage are reaching out to the anti-abuse community and yet some people on NANOG keep interfering with the cleanup process. How do you expect them to clean up their network and return to normal operations (with considerably less abuse) if it keeps being disconnected?

The shit isn't even there anymore. These kids have moved it elsewhere. Intercage have learned their lesson, just leave them alone and let the people who have *real* problems (e.g. me, Andrew Kirch of AHBL, Spamhaus, Gadi, etc.) with Intercage deal with this.

They _claim_ they have learned their lesson and cleaned up their act. However, that does not erase the _years_ that they knew what was going on and happily took miscreants' money for polluting the commons. The police and courts are impotent, so it falls to the victims to take action. I hate lynch mobs as much as the next guy, but the law _does_ allow people to defend themselves and protect themselves from future harm by proven bad actors.

They could be lying; we have no proof they're not, so given their track record, we must assume they are. What's to stop them from next week going back to the folks they've disconnected and taking their money again, again abusing the community.

Even if they're not lying, application of the Death Penalty, as obviously justified in this case, is the _only_ way to discourage others from doing the same thing by instilling the fear of the same consequences.

S