North American Network Operators Group

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Re: More long AS-sets announced

  • From: Bruce Campbell
  • Date: Tue Jun 21 12:44:06 2005

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, Pete Templin wrote:

Randy Bush wrote:

showing that ios won't crash is very difficult because the number
of versions of ios, and the amazing dependencies of things on which
blade is in which slot and what phase is the moon.
Thank you. You've provided a clean, concise counter to Lorenzo's original claim that long AS sets won't trip on IOS bugs.

Alternatively, why can't the test be conducted in a lab, with interested operators providing router configurations and xOS versions to give the test bed the most realistic sample of the 'net, without using the production 'net?
Has anyone considered that the project may have indeed done testing of available IOS/$ROUTER versions in a lab environment before even considering testing on the 'live' internet? Reading the cited material might be of benefit to the vocal complainers.

I think Lorenzo would be the first to admit that the timing of operator notifications, and more importantly the wording, may be less than desired, however this does not detract from the caution, and professionalism exhibited thus far in this set of experiments.

This may be a well-run, very small experiment, but it's experimenting with a space that's rarely explored and therefore less likely to have encountered the same level of operational testing that horrifying garbage leaks have tested.
Part of the problem is that because it is, as you put it, a rarely explored problem space, the number of interested parties with sufficient and varied resources is extremely small, resulting in a less-than-complete testing environment.

Another part of the problem is that you cannot put the concept back in the box. The black-hats do read operational lists, and with all the fuss being made over possible breakage caused by AS-sets, some of them will do will perform their own, possibly destructive experiments in order to find out what specific $ROUTER versions do under various inputs.

So, which would you prefer.. Lorenzo at a known contact number with known working hours (+31 20 535 4444, 10am to 5pm GMT +1), and with the Internet's best interests at heart, or some malcontent with unknown contacts, unknown hours, and very definitely not your best interests at heart ?


Unfortunately, option 3, do nothing to see whether it is actually a problem, is no longer valid.