North American Network Operators Group

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Re: Big List of network owners?

  • From: John Underhill
  • Date: Thu Oct 28 18:34:49 2004

Again guys.. just in the thinking out loud stage..
But it does surprise me that this information is not freely available, and accessible to all without hindrance, registration or obligations of any kind.
There is the argument that this information could be used by the wrong people to do the wrong thing, but I am guessing many of those people already have this data. Arguably, the people most likely to be causing problems, are the very ones who seek anonymity through a process that is apparently not as defined and regulated as it needs to be in order to assure proper identification and subsequent accountability.
It is all about that accountability, action and response. If insists on harboring CWS, spam engines, and the like, wouldn't it be better if everyone knew, down to the last host, every address they own? If this information were freely available, posted in plain view, script friendly, and a dynamic resource, I suspect a lot of problems could, (at least in part), be made to disappear, or at the very least, automated tracking systems, and abuse reports could be made to be more reliable.
Every enterprise is absolutely dependent on its financial viability, if the owner of woke up on Monday morning to find half of north america was no longer visible to his clients, he would either a) grow a conscience, or, b) go out of business - either one would be just fine with me.


----- Original Message ----- From: "william(at)" <[email protected]>
To: "John Underhill" <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: Big List of network owners?

Please describe exactly what you want to do with the data. If its specific
action based on some network name or per their ASN, I can probably deliver
it (assuming this function has community value for more then just your
needs). But providing entire list - is too open for abuse and also may
violate RIR policies for not redistributing bulk whois data in "bulk form".

If you want to do it yourself - feel free to contact every RIR (its only 4
of them) and sign for bulk whois agreements (and RIPE and APNIC already
provide their whois database free actually if you look around) and write
scripts and program to put it all in the database format that you want.

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, John Underhill wrote:

I realize that there may be no way to contact many of these people, but, it
is a step towards identifying problem networks. If is
responsible for a given percentage of the garbage that comes through our
pipes, and I can leverage user input to identify this, then I can use this
to create more responsive filtering policies..

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary E. Miller" <[email protected]>
To: "John Underhill" <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: Big List of network owners?

> Hash: SHA1
> Yo John!
> On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, John Underhill wrote:
>> ... but I am looking for a
>> way to make it more reflexive, automated, and give the users a more
>> direct
>> course of action that releases our help desk from some of the burden..
> And that is exactly why it will not happen. A lot of the registrars
> have gone over to the other side. Ever try to get any domain contact
> info out of nameking?
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gary E. Miller Rellim 20340 Empire Blvd, Suite E-3, Bend, OR 97701
> [email protected] Tel:+1(541)382-8588 Fax: +1(541)382-8676
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
> iD8DBQFBgWGE8KZibdeR3qURAhOxAJ95psP3g0yjv1Wr6vz5yPQPuCaE4gCdEP/e
> erE90DWlIxpcUFLljcMW98k=
> =dvcd