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Backhoes are not the threat I was worried about - no need to beat a dead horse though or continue this in a public forum. The difference between viewing the world at layer 1 vs layer 3. ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. Benjamin Kessler" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 12:38 pm Subject: RE: RE: RE: NYSE > My understanding is that the way the SFTI network is built the > loss of an > entire ring between Site A and Site B wouldn't cause an outage > because Site > B would also have a ring between it and Site C and Site A would be > connectedto Site n. > > I can't speak to how the fibers were procured and whether or not > they're in > their own rights-of-way (as another poster suggested; I'd guess > that they're > using previously dark fiber in existing bundles). > > Based-on the drawings I've seen (unfortunately, they don't appear > to be on > SFTI's web site so they must be considered proprietary) the > multiple rings > are separated in some places by several hundred miles to prevent > the single > back hoe incident. > > Aside from the $$ and the joy of dealing with SIAC (they tend to > be a bit > inflexible at times), the infrastructure has been quite stable in > the 18 > months that my client has been using it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:31 AM > To: Temkin, David > Cc: Alen Capalik; Philip Lavine; nanog > Subject: Re: RE: RE: NYSE > > > > So, that would be a another conduit sitting in the same right of > way, and > this is supposed to make it "completely independent". Last time I > checked a > backhoe treated all conduits the same. Not trying to shoot the > messangerjsut trying to make a point. > > Points of entry is different than the number of pipes. The > biggest single > problem in the security of these networks is physical diversity, > at least in > my biased point of view. There are six different sets of right of > ways in > Manhattan and forty something fiber providers, but no one seems to > fess up > when they are not offering redundancy but just another pipe in the > sameconduit. Do the math and you see the problem. It is not just > a SFTI > problem but a generic problem. Just worrisome that it appears > that SFTI > does not see it as a problem, or worse view at as a problem they > have solved > by laying new pipe in the same conduits. > > The problem rears it head in several examples where effeciency and > costsavings trumps true diversity. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Temkin, David" <[email protected]> > Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 11:11 am > Subject: RE: RE: NYSE > > > It's my understanding that > > A) The providers of the actual ring did install "Separate" fiber for > > SFTI but I have no idea whether or not they're in new rights of > > way - > > I'm willing to bet not > > > > B) Reducing the points of entry into the ring reduces complexity and > > makes it much easier to recover the ring in the event of a disaster. > > Understanding that SIAC has thousands and thouands of customers > > connecting at the DS-3+ level to get data that's generated from one > > place means that you need to keep the distribution uniform. > > Basically,it boils down to them being able to say "Our ring is > up, > > if your > > connectivity to our ring is down it's your problem" in order to > > maintainfairness between Trading firm A that has 10 people and > > Trading firm B > > that has 10,000 people. > > > > When they were maintaining separate interfaces for each customer > they> could potentially run into issues where they'd get certain > larger > > firmsback able to trade sooner than smaller ones and then you > > create unfair > > market disadvantages. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:40 AM > > > To: Temkin, David > > > Cc: Alen Capalik; Philip Lavine; nanog > > > Subject: Re: RE: NYSE > > > > > > > > > There are a few things about the SFTI set up that are a bit > > > baffling to me. From their website: > > > > > > SFTI carries IP traffic over a topology of redundant, > > > self-healing fiber-optic rings, completely independent of all > > > other telco circuits and conduits. SFTI's design is > > > straightforward, consolidating traffic into fewer pipes, > > > which minimizes complexity and reduces the number of > > > potential points of failure. > > > > > > What does "completely independent of all other telco circuits > > > and conduits" mean? Did they get their very own "new" right > > > of ways dug out. A certain government report listed their > > > physical fiber provider, and they certainly are not new right > > > of ways. Further, I'm a bit baffled how reducing the number > > > of pipes reduces the number of potential points of failure. > > > Usually fewer pipes means less diversity. A ring is nice > > > till someone hits it in two places. I also wonder how many > > > of these rings are collapsed in a single conduit. I hope > > > someone over there is asking tough questions and are > > > following up on getting a second physical fiber provider. > > > I'd recommend not advertising who it this time either. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Temkin, David" <[email protected]> > > > Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 9:45 am > > > Subject: RE: NYSE > > > > > > > > > > > You can no longer order "direct" lines to SIAC unless you > have > > an > > > > extremely compelling reason. Nowadays you must order a > > > line to "SFTI" > > > > which is their Disaster-Recovery-centric service. You are > > correct > > > > aboutthe connection method, but he will need to be specific > > and > > > > understandthat he wants to connect to SFTI and not just "SIAC" > > > > directly anymore. > > > > > > > > See: https://sfti.siac.com/sfti/index.jsp for more details. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > > > > > Of Alen Capalik > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 10:20 PM > > > > > To: Philip Lavine > > > > > Cc: nanog > > > > > Subject: Re: NYSE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 10:36:16AM -0700, Philip Lavine wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > If I where to connect to SIAC thru a SONNET ring who's > > > > > would it be? Is > > > > > > it private or public? > > > > > > > > > > They use any provider (Verizon, MCI, AT&T and ConEd > > > Comm.), however > > > > > ConED Comm. is their primary backbone provider. So, > > > here's how you > > > > > go about it. You order a line (DS-1, DS-3, 100Mb/s, Gig, > > > whatever) > > > > > from any of the providers you use (if I were you I would > > > use either > > > > > Verizon or ConEd Comm, I can give you the number for ConEd > > Comm. > > > > > head sales person). You contact SIAC, and you start the > > > paperwork > > > > > to get your network connected into their backbone SONET. > > > Once you > > > > > get permit numbers, you have the provider drop a line > > > into one of 5 > > > > > data centers around NY area, and SIAC gives you a port on > > one of > > > > > their Juniper Routers. They also give you a VLAN setup > > > requirements > > > > > so you can configure your border switch/router. > > > > > The line is owned by you. SIAC only gives you a port on > > their > > > > > routers. NOTE: NEVER ORDER ONE LINE. > > > > > ORDER TWO OR MORE LINES TO DIFFERENT SIAC DATA CENTERS. > The > > cost > > > > > for one port (one line) is as follows: > > > > > > > > > > MRC (Monthly Reaccuring Cost): > > > > > $4,400.00 > > > > > NRC (Non-Reaccuring Cost i.e. one time fee): $8,800 > > > > > > > > > > Any line you drop at SIAC will cost you that amount, and > > > that's on > > > > > top of the line costs from the provider. That's it. Hope > > this > > > > > helps. Like I said it's a very long and tedious process > > > getting the > > > > > line up and running with SIAC. > > > > > They are practically a government institution, and they > > > don't move > > > > > too fast for anybody. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- "R. Benjamin Kessler" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've setup a highly-redundant connection for one of my > > > > clients > > > > > > > (equipment in two different access-centers in two > > > > > different cities). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you looking to do? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ben > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > R. Benjamin Kessler > > > > > > > Sr. Network Consultant > > > > > > > CCIE #8762, CISSP, CCSE > > > > > > > Midwest Network Services Group > > > > > > > Email: [email protected] > > > > > > > http://www.midwestnsg.com > > > > > > > Phone: 260-625-3273 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Philip Lavine > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 2:38 PM > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > Subject: NYSE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have experience in setting up a direct > > > > > connection with > > > > > > > NYSE, specifically SIAC or SFTI? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > > > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. > > > > > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > > > > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Alen Capalik > > > > > CTO > > > > > Wiretap Networks Inc. > > > > > > > > > > Tel: (310)497-3512 > > > > > Email: [email protected] > > > > > Website: http://www.wiretapnetworks.com > > > > > > > > > > /* > > > > > * Anything that is considered impossibility, > > > > > * will in fact occur with absolute certainty. > > > > > */ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMPORTANT: The information contained in this email and/or > its > > > > attachments is confidential. If you are not the intended > > recipient, > > > > please notify the sender immediately by reply and > > > immediately delete > > > > this message and all its attachments. Any review, use, > > > reproduction, > > > > disclosure or dissemination of this message or any > attachment > > by an > > > > unintended recipient is strictly prohibited. Neither this > > > message nor > > > > any attachment is intended as or should be construed as an > > offer, > > > > solicitation or recommendation to buy or sell any security > or > > other > > > > financial instrument. Neither the sender, his or her > > > employer nor any > > > > of their respective affiliates makes any warranties as to > the > > > > completeness or accuracy of any of the information > > > contained herein or > > > > that this message or any of its attachments is free of viruses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMPORTANT: The information contained in this email and/or its > > attachments is confidential. If you are not the intended > > recipient, please notify the sender immediately by reply and > > immediately delete this message and all its attachments. Any > > review, use, reproduction, disclosure or dissemination of this > > message or any attachment by an unintended recipient is strictly > > prohibited. Neither this message nor any attachment is intended > > as or should be construed as an offer, solicitation or > > recommendation to buy or sell any security or other financial > > instrument. Neither the sender, his or her employer nor any of > > their respective affiliates makes any warranties as to the > > completeness or accuracy of any of the information contained > > herein or that this message or any of its attachments is free of > > viruses. > > > >
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