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North American Network Operators Group Date Prev | Date Next | Date Index | Thread Index | Author Index | Historical Re: Where can I find a list of IPs and their regions.
Hello Everyone,
To finish up on this mini-thread, I found this:
http://www.maxmind.com/geoip
"MaxMind GeoIP - Obtain the Country, Region, City, Latitude, and
Longitude of any IP address.
scott
: : I'm however pursuing this issue futher and see it as that rather then
: : developing this into one-one relationship between ip and country, it might
: : be better provide several countries where there is good possibility that
: : this ip is being used. For example if some ip block is allocated by
: : ARIN to ISP in US and there is futher subdeligation (SWIP) from there to
: : another entity in Canada - then there are two possibilities:
: : 1. ISP is providing direct dedicated connectivity to that company's
: : office in Canada
: : 2. ISP is providing colo space or dedicated server to company from Canada
: : but this actual server is still in US
: : Just by looking at whois data I can not reliably tell which of the above
: : is true.
:
: You're still not thinking globally. Extend the above to cover the whole
: planet, then, for that small percentage of networks that are truly global
: the ip to country (or even continent) mapping ceases to have meaning
: unless those networks deaggregate their CIDR block and advertise them
: regionally.
:
:
: : changing reverse???), neither do ASNs have exact country correspondence as
: : in many cases same AS numbers are used by ISPs for providing connectivity
: : both for their customers in one country and in another.
:
: This is especially true in places like Europe where the countries are
: small. The mapping really breaks down there.
:
:
: : Yet another way to use network connectivity data and not rely on what ISPs
: : tells you, might be something like GPS where test servers try to get to
: : the same ip from different locations and measure TTL of the packet
: : (response latency) - this way may help locate exact region where
: : server is based. This method would work very well if only we were all
: : on the same homogeneous network. But real structure of the net has many
: : many networks and that ISPs don't always exchange traffic in the same
: : city or region even if traffic originates and ends there and that even for
: : the same network within same ISP, packet may not necesserily take
: : "geographically shortest" path and ISP may want to reroute it more.
:
: : However if several sources are matched and they are all exact, there is
: : pretty good guess ip block is being used in that country (minor issues like
:
: I have one advertisement (roughly) and it is announced globally. I have
: servers geographically dispersed around the globe. So what country or
: continent is my network located in??? You can't even do traceroutes or
: whatever. Think GLOBAL... We liked to call our network a PAN (Planetary
: Area Network)
:
:
: : would prefer to put such ip block in multiple country lists. However I'm
: : afraid that if such lists I are then made publicly available then they
: : will be used by people who want to block entire countries and they will
: : not care if there is only 50% chance ip is actually used in that country.
:
: This can work if the CIDR block is cut up into many smaller chunks and
: advertised in various regions. Unfortunately, many large networks now do
: this table-bloating advertisement of large numbers of small subnets which
: could be easily aggregated. So, more and more, your need to map IP block
: to country will be easier to do.
:
: scott
:
:
:
:
: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, william<at>elan.net wrote:
:
: : On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Scott Weeks wrote:
: :
: : > : exist in. I know it isn't an exact science but something close would
: : > : be nice. I know 210/8 & 211/8 are APNIC, I likes to know stuff like
: :
: : > This only works for a certain percentage of networks. Most likely a
: : > higher percentage post tech bubble collapse. I used to work for a company
: : > that had 167.216.128.0/17 and we announced that globally. So you couldn't
: : > say 167.216.128.0/17 was in the US (or even NA) as it'd appear from ARIN
: : > or other data sources.
: :
: : That is quite correct. Simply taking ips as reported by RIR in statistic
: : files or as seen in whois as allocated/assigned by RIRs does not provide
: : a real view of how ips are used and in what country and I do not believe
: : such list is sufficient - that is the reason why the current list of ips
: : I mentioned that is available at completewhois is considered to be an
: : alpha stage project - it is not alpha stage in the way that I have not
: : developed system for producing such list from RIR data (I do have necessary
: : tools and scripts and it works just fine), its just that its not sufficiently
: : exact for real life use as identification of ip to country.
: :
: : I'm however pursuing this issue futher and see it as that rather then
: : developing this into one-one relationship between ip and country, it might
: : be better provide several countries where there is good possibility that
: : this ip is being used. For example if some ip block is allocated by
: : ARIN to ISP in US and there is futher subdeligation (SWIP) from there to
: : another entity in Canada - then there are two possibilities:
: : 1. ISP is providing direct dedicated connectivity to that company's
: : office in Canada
: : 2. ISP is providing colo space or dedicated server to company from Canada
: : but this actual server is still in US
: : Just by looking at whois data I can not reliably tell which of the above
: : is true.
: :
: : Other ways to determine where ip blocks are used are based on real-time
: : routing data either on BGP or traceroutes. Neither one is sufficiently
: : good however as traceroutes can be faked and in reality many methods
: : with traceroutes depend too much on reverse dns name of the router (so
: : any ISP can "claim" to have the router anywhere else in the world just by
: : changing reverse???), neither do ASNs have exact country correspondence as
: : in many cases same AS numbers are used by ISPs for providing connectivity
: : both for their customers in one country and in another.
: :
: : Yet another way to use network connectivity data and not rely on what ISPs
: : tells you, might be something like GPS where test servers try to get to
: : the same ip from different locations and measure TTL of the packet
: : (response latency) - this way may help locate exact region where
: : server is based. This method would work very well if only we were all
: : on the same homogeneous network. But real structure of the net has many
: : many networks and that ISPs don't always exchange traffic in the same
: : city or region even if traffic originates and ends there and that even for
: : the same network within same ISP, packet may not necesserily take
: : "geographically shortest" path and ISP may want to reroute it more.
: :
: : However if several sources are matched and they are all exact, there is
: : pretty good guess ip block is being used in that country (minor issues like
: : VPN aside - if somebody is using VPN, they are in effect putting themselve
: : in different location and should be treated as somebody from that location).
: : However when things don't match and there are several possibilities, I
: : would prefer to put such ip block in multiple country lists. However I'm
: : afraid that if such lists I are then made publicly available then they
: : will be used by people who want to block entire countries and they will
: : not care if there is only 50% chance ip is actually used in that country.
: : The only choice left is to report only some ip blocks and leave the rest
: : in certain large data file listing all possibilities and this file (may
: : not be one file, but anyway) is sufficiently different to parse that people
: : will not easily use it, while applications (like providing statistics on
: : visitors to your website) could still use it and treat those blocks
: : specifically unique in a way as not to emphasise any one country.
: :
: : --
: : William Leibzon
: : Elan Networks
: : [email protected]
: :
: :
:
:
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