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North American Network Operators Group Date Prev | Date Next | Date Index | Thread Index | Author Index | Historical Re: State Super-DMCA Too True
As reading your message both hurts my eyes and would take excessive effort to reformat for a reply, I won't do so. However, I do question the credibility of anyone who cites Cheech and Chong to back up his position. S Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking ----- Original Message ----- From: "todd glassey" <[email protected]> To: "Stephen Sprunk" <[email protected]>; "Michael Loftis" <[email protected]>; "Robert A. Hayden" <[email protected]> Cc: "North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 31 March, 2003 17:07 Subject: RE: State Super-DMCA Too True > Stephen - my responses in caps - > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On > Behalf Of > Stephen Sprunk > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 2:32 PM > To: todd glassey; Michael Loftis; Robert A. Hayden > Cc: North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes > Subject: Re: State Super-DMCA Too True > > > > Thus spake "todd glassey" <[email protected]> > > Yes but this is specific to the argument on whether an ISP > > should be accountable for what people do with its > bandwidth > > and what I think is ultimately going to happen is that > these > > laws are going to be put in place and as part of enforcing > > these there will be some arrests. > > If you ship pot via FedEx, does the delivery guy go to jail > too? > > THIS IS A REALLY BAD EXAMPLE - IF YOU WANT I WILL GIVE YOU > THE ADDRESSES OF HALF A DOZEN MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISTRIBUTORS > IN SAN FRANCISCO AND OAKLAND, AND THEY CAN ANSWER THAT ONE - > I THINK HERE IN CALIFORNIA, IF YOU ARE IN A CITY THAT DOES > NOT PROSECUTE THE MEDICINAL USE OF MARIJUANA - THEN NO ONE > GOES TO JAIL FOR SHIPPING IT. > > No. > If you make obscene phone calls, does the operator go to > jail too? > > DEPENDS ON WHETHER THEY DIALED THE PHONE FOR YOU. > > No. > > BUT IF YOUR AGENT OPENS THE PACKAGE TO INSURE THAT IT HAD A > CORRECT ADDRESS ON IT AND FINDS IT CONTAINS CONTRABAND - > THEN ARE THEY RESPONSIBLE? - BETTER YET - IF THEY OPENED THE > PACKAGE TO INSPECT THE DELIVERY ADDRESS AND THEN REFUSED TO > APPLY ANY DILIGENCE ON THE PACKAGES PAYLOAD OR OTHER ADDRESS > DATA BEYOND THAT OF A LOCAL DELIVERY ADDRESS, MY TAKE IS > THAT THIS IS WHY THERE WILL BE SO MANY ADMIN'S IN JAIL IN > THE COMING YEAR OR TWO - WITH THEIR ATTITUDES, THEY MAY > OUT-NUMBER THE DRUNK DRIVERS IN CALIFORNIA PRISONS SOON. > > ANYWAY - THE OPENING OF THE MAIL TO DO ANYTHING INCLUDING > DELIVER IT OBLIGATES YOU TO MAKE SURE THAT ANY AND ALL THE > DATA REPRESENTED IN THE HEADER IS REAL AS WELL. IF YOU PARSE > THE RFC822 DATA TO PROCESS IT THEM PROCESS IT. THAT'S THE > POINT AND THAT THIS IS NOT AN OPTION UNDER THESE LAWS - ITS > JUST THAT TO DATE THE TIER-2/3 ISP'S HAVE NEVER BEFORE BEEN > THREATENED WITH JAIL FOR NOT GOING THE WHOLE ROUTE... > > Common carrier status exists for this very reason. > > I WOULD ARGUE THAT THE ISP'S ARE BY DEFINITION NOT COMMON > CARRIERS. ONLY THE TIER-1 PROVIDERS WOULD BE CLASSIFIED AS > CC'S UNDER INTERNET DEFINITIONS, AND ANYONE THAT OPERATES > MORE THAN ONE TIER-1 SERVICE, AS IN A TIER-2 OR TIER-3 > OPERATION TOO, HAS A LARGER ISSUE THAT ALL OF THEIR > INFRASTRUCTURE LIKELY HAS TO COMPLY - > > Unfortunately, it > probably means we'll have to stop filtering things like spam > and DoS, since > filtering on content inherently violates common carrier > protection -- > > NO - QUITE THE OPPOSITE - ACTUALLY WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT FOR > ANY SERVICE FOR WHICH YOU ARE THE ORIGINATING OR TERMINATION > ENTITY, THAT "THE DATA REPRESENTED IN ANYTHING YOU PROCESS > MUST BE RELIABLE AND TRUE". THAT MEANS IF YOU ACCEPT EMAIL > FROM SOMEWHERE AND PROFFER IT ONWARD TO YOUR CLIENT'S, AND > YOU DON'T BOTHER TO FILTER AND PROOF IT - THAT YOU STAND A > GOOD CHANCE TO "GET YOUR PEE-PEE WHACKED BY THE BAILIFF" - > TO QUOTE FROM CHEECH AND CHONG. > > see > the smut suit against AOL a few years ago. > > I KNOW - I WAS AN EXPERT WITNESS IN ONE OF THEM. I ALSO AM > THE INDUSTRY LIAISON TO THE AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION'S > INFORMATION SECURITY COMMITTEE, BUT I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY SO > IGNORE THIS IF YOU WANT. > > S > > Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert > Einstein > CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He > throws the > K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen > Hawking >
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