North American Network Operators Group

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RE: Affects of the balkanization of mail blacklisting

  • From: John Fraizer
  • Date: Tue Aug 14 06:08:08 2001

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mitch Halmu wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Vivien M. wrote:
> > The INNOCENTS caught in MAPS were usually affiliated with someone guilty in
> > some way in another; eg would Mitch's customers be considered innocent
> > victims of MAPS, even though their victimness is directly due to their
> > decision to do business with someone who is guilty?
> Guilty of what, Vivien? You are accusing me of being a spammer? NetSide's 
> customers were fully informed of our stance published on a web site
> dedicated to the problem, most agreed, and those that chose to stay and 
> endure the year-long MAPS blockade obviously like their communications 
> uncensored, and truly appreciate being able to transparently use their 
> accounts from elsewhere (i.e., from the office).

Have you ever considered being a televangelist Mitch?  If you've got your
customers convinced that you're "fighting evil" by not closing your
mailservers, you could make the money Jim Bakker bilked from people look
like chump change.  And Hey!  We wouldn't have to see your shit on NANOG

> The "collateral damage" they inflicted is simply unacceptable. The MAPS 
> "agenda" came fully into the limelight with the fees they now ask for
> the "service". I dare to be as bold as to imply that their agenda is akin 
> to extracting "protection" money from ISPs. Do you really expect them to
> blackhole some of their paying "customers"?

Mitch, you also dare to be so bold as to suck up oxygen from those of us
who actually have something to contribute to the human race.  "Protection
money?"  Give me a break.  And Yes.  I fully expect them to blackhole a
paying SUBSCRIBER if that SUBSCRIBER has a SPAM problem and refuses to
address said problem.

> So Der Fuehrer constructed the German autobahn, Il Duce made the Italian 
> trains roll on time, etc. Are they good people? While I don't even question
> Vixie's great contributions such as BIND, I am fighting his little MAPS 
> charity based strictly on the belief that no private party has the right 
> to appoint themselves as communications censors. That role, if it ever 
> comes to it, can only be filled by laws and a government mandate.

Mitch, in case you hadn't noticed, MAPS did not appoint themselfs as
ANYTHING.  Their listing someone in any one of the database has NO effect
at all on anything in and of itself.  Those of us who DO use MAPS had to
make changes to our configurations.  We choose to use the list of sorry
low-life pond scum sucking SPAM relaying cry like a baby because they're
listed but won't fix the damned problem bastards, such as yourself, that
MAPS provides to protect ourselfs and our customers from the same.

You want government mandate?  How about this.  Self government.  As the
administrator of my domain/AS, I declare them sovern entities and myself
the head of state of each.  As head of state, I mandate that all said
entities shall make use of a proscribed ANTI-SPAM technology.  I proscribe
the MAPS system as said technology and hereby mandate it's use.

Now, you get what you want, I get what I want.

> What can I say? We all have our idols and foes. Being objective and
> impartial about their actions, and having the courage to point at
> your friend's errors, or dare to disagree with something viewed as
> "politically correct" in some circles is a different story. It certainly
> wont't win you any popularity contests...

You think you're objective?  BWAHAHAHAHA!  And you are VERY popular.  I'd
venture to say that you're listed in more procmail filters than the whole
rest of the subscribership of NANOG combined!

Now, please, I BEG YOU -- GO AWAY!

John Fraizer
EnterZone, Inc