North American Network Operators Group

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RE: Affects of the balkanization of mail blacklisting

  • From: Mitch Halmu
  • Date: Tue Aug 14 01:31:15 2001

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Vivien M. wrote:

> > On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Randy Bush wrote:
> > > >> you could be right.  i guess it's time i sent them another donation.
> > > > Save it: the people MAPS has harmed neet it more.
> > >
> > > support low-life, slimeball, spammers?  ROFL!
> >
> > No, I'm not talking about the spammers who were caught in maps, I'm
> > referring to the INNOCENTS who were caught in MAPS.  If the LEO community
> > acted like MAPS does, there would have been armed revolution in the
> > streets *years ago*.
> The INNOCENTS caught in MAPS were usually affiliated with someone guilty in
> some way in another; eg would Mitch's customers be considered innocent
> victims of MAPS, even though their victimness is directly due to their
> decision to do business with someone who is guilty?

Guilty of what, Vivien? You are accusing me of being a spammer? NetSide's 
customers were fully informed of our stance published on a web site
dedicated to the problem, most agreed, and those that chose to stay and 
endure the year-long MAPS blockade obviously like their communications 
uncensored, and truly appreciate being able to transparently use their 
accounts from elsewhere (i.e., from the office).
> > MAPS never gave a shit about facts, they cared only about their agenda -
> > no matter who got hurt in the way.
> Funny, I could say the same about you:
> "You never gave a s**t about facts, you cared only about your agenda -
> no matter who got spammed in the way".

The "collateral damage" they inflicted is simply unacceptable. The MAPS 
"agenda" came fully into the limelight with the fees they now ask for
the "service". I dare to be as bold as to imply that their agenda is akin 
to extracting "protection" money from ISPs. Do you really expect them to
blackhole some of their paying "customers"?

> > Fuckem.  Vixie is a netnazi who would do us all a favor if he just blew
> > what little brains he has left out of his left ear.
> Vixie's done a lot of things other than MAPS that have done a lot of good;
> BIND, anyone? I'm sure there are a bunch of others but exposure to such
> stupidity as your post has caused my mind to go blank.

So Der Fuehrer constructed the German autobahn, Il Duce made the Italian 
trains roll on time, etc. Are they good people? While I don't even question
Vixie's great contributions such as BIND, I am fighting his little MAPS 
charity based strictly on the belief that no private party has the right 
to appoint themselves as communications censors. That role, if it ever 
comes to it, can only be filled by laws and a government mandate.

> BTW, if I replaced "Vixie" with "You and Mitch" in that sentence, I think it
> might reflect the opinion of "us all" a bit better, because lots of us don't
> seem to mind his existence.
> Vivien

What can I say? We all have our idols and foes. Being objective and
impartial about their actions, and having the courage to point at
your friend's errors, or dare to disagree with something viewed as
"politically correct" in some circles is a different story. It certainly
wont't win you any popularity contests...