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North American Network Operators Group Date Prev | Date Next | Date Index | Thread Index | Author Index | Historical Re: [NANOG] Re: new.net: yet another dns namespace overlay play
WARNING: This post contains heavy snippage and tongue-in-cheek footnotes. At 07:38 PM 3/7/2001, you wrote: Great. Now I just have to remember the IP address of my favorite search engine. Why don't we simplify it and just rememberBuild a search engine which takes "old" domain name "WWW.CNN.COM" and produces URL with 207.25.71.27 in it :) I spent a year in the bowels of search engine placement. I can tell you that if there's a resource I am going to use repeatedly, on multiple OSes, multiple machines, and across any length of time, I don't want to find out my favorite search engine purged it's record. Nor do I want to find out it has renumbered, and the search engine has the bad data cached. At least DNS zones have TTL's. No, that won't happen to the big traffic sites, but it sure will happen to the smaller ones. Not only that, but you are swapping apples for oranges here; I don't have to remember "cnn.com", but I have to remember "cnn news us edition"?Even better, go to a real search engine and look for "CNN news US edition". Not only does this break economical and easy redundancy, it breaks virtual webhosting as well. *That* will certainly be a nice kidney punch to the ailing IPv4 address space. "Excuse me, Arin? Hi. I need a /20."[1] On cable TV, you have ~200 channels. On the internet, you have 4 billion IP addresses. The analogy doesn't scale.I'm wondering how people managed to find CNN on TV -- after all, CNN ads didn't feature local channel numbers :) Not to mention the fact that you have a channel guide that serves the same function as DNS. I see those OSes *all* the time.As for removing environment variables and symlinks... hmmm... people who built Unix in the first place certainly didn't like these features, and replaced them with much more generic concepts in Plan 9 and Inferno. Hell, I've seen more copies of Ed Woods "Plan 9 From Outer Space" than I have Plan 9. What you are suggesting is that we remove a universally implemented long-held industry standard and replace it with the equivalent of a lot of kludgy proprietary hacks- which is what DNS was invented to escape from. IMO, this is an astoundingly bad idea. The system as it stands is fault tolerant, distributed, universal[2], and easy. You want to replace it with something that is more susceptible to human error, more likely to break during network renumbering[4], more expensive in both time and money, more wasteful of dwindling IP space, and less functional overall? When your car gets a few scratches on the hood, do you junk it and walk everywhere? At 07:43 PM 3/7/2001, Edward S. Marshall wrote: On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 07:04:05PM -0800, Ben Browning wrote:...at which point AOL Keywords will become even more spammed than domain names, and more broken than DNS. All of these currently point to a distributed, authoritative resource system. They cannot be relied upon to be authoritative in and of themselves. I have seen pages on Altavista, for example, that have been defunct for *over a year* and they are stiull listed. Despite numerous attempts to get them unlisted.Please, explain to me how DNS differs from any other resource location (or perhaps "association") system? Examples that immediately spring to mind: - Address books - URL Bookmarks - Altavista - Google "ad words" - dmoz.org - doubleclick.net banners "Unlike existing database systems, LDAP is not designed to hold many hundreds of thousands of entries. It might be best to think of LDAP as a hierarchically organized lightweight database. An LDAP server may use a small embedded database to contain its information for faster access, but it's nothing like the large commercial databases such as Oracle, Sybase, DB/2 or SQL Server. "- LDAP http://linuxworld.com/linuxworld/lw-1999-07/lw-07-ldap_1.html No real difference, aside from having 1/3 the amount of address space that the Big Three TLD's have. Then again, do we really want to standardize on an AOL product that remains wholely under their thumb?- AOL keywords - ARIN allocations ...and apnic, and ripe. Aside from a layer or two on the ol' OSI model? - akamai Difference? Explain the similarity? My router automagically remembers ASN's it talks to. I have a phone book for a reason.- BGP updates A Swiss army knife with a hammer attached to it will never equal a true hammer. The only thing that even comes close to DNS in terms of the niche it fills is the AOL keywords thing, and even that already uses DNS as a backend.Some, you can register with for free. Some, you have to pay for. All act as means to locate resources (URLs, email addresses, etc). The proliferation of these is, IMHO, an indictment of DNS as a resource locator; obviously, it isn't usable or general enough to serve the needs of today's Internet, or it (and its implementors) would have kept up. Bottom line: Just because it ain't perfect don't mean it ain't the best solution. ~Ben, as always, speaking for himself [1] Which, I believe, is a very special level of Hell reserved for people like Hitler, Stalin, and Barney the Dinosaur [2] Although I do agree that unicode support would be nice.[3] [3] Man, the skr1pt k1dd13z domains would go nutso with that one [4] This is the floor right above the one referenced in [1] # # Comment: You may have to Ctrl-C out of the footnote loop above # --- Ben Browning <[email protected]> The River Internet Access Co. Network Operations 1-877-88-RIVER http://www.theriver.com
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