North American Network Operators Group

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Re: spam colusion

  • From: Dean Anderson
  • Date: Mon Jan 10 00:31:46 2000

Around 11:59 AM 1/9/2000 +1100, rumor has it that Adrian J Close said:
>On Sat, 8 Jan 2000, Dean Anderson wrote:
>> Umm, for the record, I do make such an accusation. When they probe a
>> non-public government computer, they are violating 18 USC 1030 Sections
>> 2(b), 2(c), and 3.  Those are criminal violations.  You simply may not
>These may be criminal violations of US law, but I'm pretty sure New
>Zealand is a sovereign nation with its own government, laws and legal
>system.  I think you'll have some trouble convincing the NZ government to
>allow the ORBS maintainer(s) to be extradited, especially seeing as the
>"crime" was committed on NZ soil where it likely isn't illegal.

I've already spoken with FBI about juridiction. FBI considers crimes
against US computers to be US crimes, even when initiated from foriegn
countries.  They can extradite for this. That it originated from NZ isn't
an issue.  While the FBI agreed that these were indeed violations, my
initial complaint was not prosecuted because we could at the time only come
up with $900 in damages.  We are closing on the $100K mark, where I'll make
an updated complaint, which I hope will get more attention.

>This is notionally pretty similar to what ORBS are doing in SMTP-relay
>land, which is understandable if you subscribe to their assertion that
>third-party relay is a "bad thing".  If you need third party relay and 
>deal with spammers in other ways, then ORBS become pretty annoying.  Of
>course, you could always just ignore them...

We do ignore them. They are pretty ineffective at causing any mail problems
for us. Which is another good reason not to use them. However, they enable
spammers to find relays. Particularly annoying to me is they enable
spammers to find our relay.  When ORBS was blocked from 11/24 to 12/15, our
relay troubles stopped.  Spammers can't relay without a list of relays.
ORBS provides that list.

           Plain Aviation, Inc                  [email protected]