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North American Network Operators Group Date Prev | Date Next | Date Index | Thread Index | Author Index | Historical Re: Incompetance abounds at the InterNIC
I've just recently had a case where a speculator charged a gullible client thousands of dollars for a domain and then proceeded to do nothing when it came time to update the records with the Internic. It literally took a MONTH of forwarding notarized documents and then many follow-up calls to get the Internic to update the record. By then, the client's web site had launched....very ugly. Chris -----Original Message----- From: Henry Linneweh <[email protected]> To: Jamie Norwood <[email protected]> Cc: Dean Anderson <[email protected]>; Phil Howard <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Saturday, January 23, 1999 5:35 PM Subject: Re: Incompetance abounds at the InterNIC >I have personally seen charges as high as $3000.00 to recover a domain >name from a speculator. I believe such prices gouging is a rip-off on the >face value of it, and that it actually is harmful and harassing to a firms >business. > >Henry R. Linneweh > >Jamie Norwood wrote: > >> On Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 05:01:13PM -0500, Dean Anderson wrote: >> > At 02:37 PM 1/22/1999 -0600, Phil Howard wrote: >> > >Since many speculators actually do not pay, the claim can stand up very well. >> > >> > But they do pay. They get money sent to Internic sooner in the case of a >> > lapsed registration. [or they motivate people to pay before they lapse] >> > They get people to purchase domains they might not otherwise purchase, or >> > that they might not otherwise purchase NOW. >> >> I don't see how this is true, unless I am missing something. They register a >> domain, and charge, say, $100 for this. Since, to make a profit, they would >> have to charge more than InterNIC. Now, someone going for a domain held like >> this is likely gone looking for that domain, not the other way around. >> >> So, say we have a domain, scalper.com. We really have 4 scenarios: >> >> 1) Noone ever wants it or buys it. >> >> 2) End-user wants it, registers with Internic. >> >> 3) Speculator puts in a template on it and doesn't pay unless they get a >> buyer. No buyer comes, it is recycled. Cost to speculator: $0. InterNIC >> impact? A server usage that they never get compensated for. >> >> 4) Speculator buys it and sells it to end-user for $100, using part of that >> to pay InterNIC and part as profit. InterNIC gets payed and is happy, >> but end-user pays $30 more than they would have if the speculator >> never found it (scenario 2). >> >> Now, as I see it, there is NO GOOD that comes from the speculator. Since >> in reality they do this for hundreds, if not more, domains, and I am willing >> to bet they sell at most 10% of the domains they register, they are adding >> a high burden to InterNIC's servers, with no return. The domains would >> sell just as easily without the speculator, and InterNIC would not have >> to copensate for hundred of domain creations that they will .never. see >> payment for. The speculator, of course, makes out the best; they have no >> overhead, and make pure profit. Pretty sweet deal, maybe I should try it! >> >> > >> > The costs of the non-completed registrations is trivial. So speculators >> > make a net-profit for NSI. >> >> See above. The net-profit they claim to offer is proft Internic would get >> just as well without them, and without the server overhead of a few hundred >> domains that will never be paid for. >> >> > >> > > But if the crunch of templates is blocking _my_ couple of >> > >templates from getting processed in under a week, then I really do want >> > >them to apply some temporary fix now to _this_ system so that do have the >> > >breathing room to put a better system into place. >> > >> > Except that you (and everyone) get worse service after the proposed >> > changes. It will take everyone longer to get domains registered. And you >> > will have less information that you need to work (like on-hold status). >> > [point gun at foot, pull trigger] >> >> Someone proposed the concept of having accounts with them, where your >> billing info is on file so that you could register, and be billed that >> way, and still keep the benefits of both pre-pay and post-pay systems. >> >> > >> > >This war has probably resulted in "registration spam" where the speculator >> > >submits repeated templates, perhaps once per day, to re-register that domain >> > >hoping to narrow the window in which it is available to others. >> > >> > This makes no sense. I don't believe they re-register the same domain the >> > next day. Once registered, its good for at least 30 days, and the creation >> > date is on the record. Re-registering sooner than creation + 30 wouldn't >> > have any effect unless NSI starts trying to ignore speculator >> > registrations. Then I could see them trying to register it again the next >> > day with a different name. But if that is the case, then NSI caused the >> > flood by their own stupidity. That cannot be blamed on speculators. >> >> Why wouldn't they, if they don't know when a domain will expire? What cost >> is it to them, who likely have nice little scripts that do all the work >> anyway. They have no reason .not. to do so. >> >> > >The costs to speculators is on par with the costs to spammers. Computers >> > make >> > >it easy to do. >> > >> > Actually, all you are saying is that the cost of an email message is on par >> > with the cost of a database transaction. I'll agree, and won't argue spam >> > costs, because a bunch of us promised not to. While the comparision to spam >> > is very obvious in many ways, please don't make spam comparisons. We can >> > argue this without reference to spam. Enough said about that. >> >> Agreed. >> >> > >> > Computers make it easy for NSI, too. $35.00 pays for a lot of computer >> > cycles. There really can be hundreds of thousands of misses per one good >> > registration. >> >> It .could., but does it? >> >> > Not having delayed/canceled payment, immediate registration hurts everyone, >> > including me. When I sell a web-host, they want it up today. I suppose if >> > everyone else has to wait 30 days, it won't be any worse than, say leased >> > line delays, and if everyone has the same constraint, the playing field is >> > level, so it shouldn't cost business. [actually, thats not true, since >> > selling something sooner means more revenue in a year--that's why we have >> > those marketing/sales folks. They get people to buy things now instead of >> > next month. That makes a big difference.] >> >> See above. Give InterNIC a nice deposit to be allowed to pre-pay. No deposit, >> no reg until they have the money. >> >> > And you are complaining about delays. Presumably, everyone experiences the >> > same delays. Yet, you propose increasing the delays, and then that still >> > won't stop speculators. So what is the point? How is the system improved? >> > It isn't. >> >> But I agree, while it won't stop them, it will at least make them contribute. >> I don't consider it contribution when they have extremely little out-of-pocket >> expenses and a high amount of profit. Make them pay for .every. domain they >> register, and I don't care if they resell it. Also, when you think about it, >> niw they can register a few hundred domains at no cost, unless someone buys >> it from them. But if to register those same 300, say, domains, will cost >> them $2100, they will be a lot more hesitant, since it would be very easy >> if you are unlucky to loose a couple thousand dollars. >> >> > >> > But then, speculators are just a scapegoat. By definition, eliminating the >> > scapegoat doesn't fix the problem. It just diverts attention from the more >> > embarrasing, real problem. That's how I conclude they are just a scapegoat. >> >> The best scapegoats are the people who really are problems. But making them >> go away won't clear or hide all the problems, and it will be easier to move >> forward with fixing the other problems when they have one less excuse to >> use on us. >> >> > >It's certainly convenient to pay later. But it's not that great of a >> > >difference to me. >> > >> > Then why are you complaining that it takes weeks to register a domain? >> > Clearly, if these so-called anti-speculation changes are made, it will >> > always takes weeks to register a domain. You are shooting yourself in the >> > foot because you are afraid someone might step on your toe. >> >> Again, combine the two. Any ISP who is that worried should have no trouble >> keeping a $1000 account with Internic for domains. And even that much is >> assuming you sign up bunches of domains every day. Real people should need >> less. There are solutions that will work. I, personally, would rather >> pay by credit card and add a few hours to the time, than keep domain >> scalpers and wait a week or more. >> >> > >> > --Dean >> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> > Plain Aviation, Inc [email protected] >> > LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com >> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> Jamie >> >> Who likely should have remained lurking, but is tired and cranky. >
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