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North American Network Operators Group Date Prev | Date Next | Date Index | Thread Index | Author Index | Historical Re: Incompetance abounds at the InterNIC
I have personally seen charges as high as $3000.00 to recover a domain name from a speculator. I believe such prices gouging is a rip-off on the face value of it, and that it actually is harmful and harassing to a firms business. Henry R. Linneweh Jamie Norwood wrote: > On Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 05:01:13PM -0500, Dean Anderson wrote: > > At 02:37 PM 1/22/1999 -0600, Phil Howard wrote: > > >Since many speculators actually do not pay, the claim can stand up very well. > > > > But they do pay. They get money sent to Internic sooner in the case of a > > lapsed registration. [or they motivate people to pay before they lapse] > > They get people to purchase domains they might not otherwise purchase, or > > that they might not otherwise purchase NOW. > > I don't see how this is true, unless I am missing something. They register a > domain, and charge, say, $100 for this. Since, to make a profit, they would > have to charge more than InterNIC. Now, someone going for a domain held like > this is likely gone looking for that domain, not the other way around. > > So, say we have a domain, scalper.com. We really have 4 scenarios: > > 1) Noone ever wants it or buys it. > > 2) End-user wants it, registers with Internic. > > 3) Speculator puts in a template on it and doesn't pay unless they get a > buyer. No buyer comes, it is recycled. Cost to speculator: $0. InterNIC > impact? A server usage that they never get compensated for. > > 4) Speculator buys it and sells it to end-user for $100, using part of that > to pay InterNIC and part as profit. InterNIC gets payed and is happy, > but end-user pays $30 more than they would have if the speculator > never found it (scenario 2). > > Now, as I see it, there is NO GOOD that comes from the speculator. Since > in reality they do this for hundreds, if not more, domains, and I am willing > to bet they sell at most 10% of the domains they register, they are adding > a high burden to InterNIC's servers, with no return. The domains would > sell just as easily without the speculator, and InterNIC would not have > to copensate for hundred of domain creations that they will .never. see > payment for. The speculator, of course, makes out the best; they have no > overhead, and make pure profit. Pretty sweet deal, maybe I should try it! > > > > > The costs of the non-completed registrations is trivial. So speculators > > make a net-profit for NSI. > > See above. The net-profit they claim to offer is proft Internic would get > just as well without them, and without the server overhead of a few hundred > domains that will never be paid for. > > > > > > But if the crunch of templates is blocking _my_ couple of > > >templates from getting processed in under a week, then I really do want > > >them to apply some temporary fix now to _this_ system so that do have the > > >breathing room to put a better system into place. > > > > Except that you (and everyone) get worse service after the proposed > > changes. It will take everyone longer to get domains registered. And you > > will have less information that you need to work (like on-hold status). > > [point gun at foot, pull trigger] > > Someone proposed the concept of having accounts with them, where your > billing info is on file so that you could register, and be billed that > way, and still keep the benefits of both pre-pay and post-pay systems. > > > > > >This war has probably resulted in "registration spam" where the speculator > > >submits repeated templates, perhaps once per day, to re-register that domain > > >hoping to narrow the window in which it is available to others. > > > > This makes no sense. I don't believe they re-register the same domain the > > next day. Once registered, its good for at least 30 days, and the creation > > date is on the record. Re-registering sooner than creation + 30 wouldn't > > have any effect unless NSI starts trying to ignore speculator > > registrations. Then I could see them trying to register it again the next > > day with a different name. But if that is the case, then NSI caused the > > flood by their own stupidity. That cannot be blamed on speculators. > > Why wouldn't they, if they don't know when a domain will expire? What cost > is it to them, who likely have nice little scripts that do all the work > anyway. They have no reason .not. to do so. > > > >The costs to speculators is on par with the costs to spammers. Computers > > make > > >it easy to do. > > > > Actually, all you are saying is that the cost of an email message is on par > > with the cost of a database transaction. I'll agree, and won't argue spam > > costs, because a bunch of us promised not to. While the comparision to spam > > is very obvious in many ways, please don't make spam comparisons. We can > > argue this without reference to spam. Enough said about that. > > Agreed. > > > > > Computers make it easy for NSI, too. $35.00 pays for a lot of computer > > cycles. There really can be hundreds of thousands of misses per one good > > registration. > > It .could., but does it? > > > Not having delayed/canceled payment, immediate registration hurts everyone, > > including me. When I sell a web-host, they want it up today. I suppose if > > everyone else has to wait 30 days, it won't be any worse than, say leased > > line delays, and if everyone has the same constraint, the playing field is > > level, so it shouldn't cost business. [actually, thats not true, since > > selling something sooner means more revenue in a year--that's why we have > > those marketing/sales folks. They get people to buy things now instead of > > next month. That makes a big difference.] > > See above. Give InterNIC a nice deposit to be allowed to pre-pay. No deposit, > no reg until they have the money. > > > And you are complaining about delays. Presumably, everyone experiences the > > same delays. Yet, you propose increasing the delays, and then that still > > won't stop speculators. So what is the point? How is the system improved? > > It isn't. > > But I agree, while it won't stop them, it will at least make them contribute. > I don't consider it contribution when they have extremely little out-of-pocket > expenses and a high amount of profit. Make them pay for .every. domain they > register, and I don't care if they resell it. Also, when you think about it, > niw they can register a few hundred domains at no cost, unless someone buys > it from them. But if to register those same 300, say, domains, will cost > them $2100, they will be a lot more hesitant, since it would be very easy > if you are unlucky to loose a couple thousand dollars. > > > > > But then, speculators are just a scapegoat. By definition, eliminating the > > scapegoat doesn't fix the problem. It just diverts attention from the more > > embarrasing, real problem. That's how I conclude they are just a scapegoat. > > The best scapegoats are the people who really are problems. But making them > go away won't clear or hide all the problems, and it will be easier to move > forward with fixing the other problems when they have one less excuse to > use on us. > > > >It's certainly convenient to pay later. But it's not that great of a > > >difference to me. > > > > Then why are you complaining that it takes weeks to register a domain? > > Clearly, if these so-called anti-speculation changes are made, it will > > always takes weeks to register a domain. You are shooting yourself in the > > foot because you are afraid someone might step on your toe. > > Again, combine the two. Any ISP who is that worried should have no trouble > keeping a $1000 account with Internic for domains. And even that much is > assuming you sign up bunches of domains every day. Real people should need > less. There are solutions that will work. I, personally, would rather > pay by credit card and add a few hours to the time, than keep domain > scalpers and wait a week or more. > > > > > --Dean > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Plain Aviation, Inc [email protected] > > LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Jamie > > Who likely should have remained lurking, but is tired and cranky.
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