North American Network Operators Group

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Re: "Which Internet?"

  • From: Robert E. Seastrom
  • Date: Tue Apr 22 14:25:28 1997

   From: "Dimitri Krinos" <[email protected]>
   Cc: [email protected], [email protected]

   Mr Seastrom,

   How many times have you seen people on the NANOG list publicly condemn notes
   such as yours that are taken to the NANOG list before being taken through
   proper network operations channels?  I really get tired of listening to
   these sorts of notes when they involve other providers so I would appreciate
   if you have a response to this message, that you take it up with me (or our
   NOC) offline instead of involving the whole NANOG community.

I'm not in the habit of taking flames publicly with a request to
follow up privately.

   Regarding the incident you complain about, first of all, you called the
   wrong number.  Advantis has many other networks to support besides our
   Internet service.

Perhaps, then, you should consider updating your InterNIC records to
reflect the correct phone number and the [email protected] address.  If you
don't properly advertise the proper channels, you can hardly expect me
to follow them.  A good starting point might be for you to check _all_
your InterNIC records and make sure the phone numbers and contact
information on them are correct and up to date.

   You talked to someone in first line support who was
   trying to help you get to the NOC that manages our Internet service.  I
   don't know all the specifics of your conversation with this person, but from
   the tone of your note, I suspect you may have had something to do with the
   argument since you didn't understand that we do in fact have several inter
   networks to support.   In the future, try [email protected] and you will get to
   the bottom of the problem.

Pardon my lack of patience, but when I call up and explain to the NOC
person on the other end of the phone that this is a problem with
Advantis' Internet service and that they are leaking internal routes
into the global BGP mesh, I expect them to say something like "please
hold; I'll connect you to the right people" rather than "what Internet
is this?".  That reflects rather poorly on your training process for
your first-string helpdesk people, and moreover when I asked (nicely
the first time!) to escalate to their manager, YOUR EMPLOYEE ARGUED
WITH ME.  Please take into account my exasperated mindset after
dealing with this kind of unprofessional behavior before you get
self-righteous about the tone of my posting.

   Secondly, we brought up peering *yesterday* with your upstream provider and
   a typo was made in the configuration which resulted in your getting the
   extra routes.  This situation was promptly fixed once it really got to the

After much back and forth and phone calls to me asking whether I was
still seeing the routes, yes.  "Promptly" in this case meaning about
18 hours after the problem was first brought to your attention.  I
hope I don't ever have to deal with that help-desk for anything of an
operationally critical nature.

   Why you seem to have the need to publicly criticize our network with
   false statements such as 'this condition has persisted for several months'
   is beyond me.

I got a message from one of your other peers saying that you had been
leaking the routes to him for months and that he had tried getting you
to clean up your act but ended up just filtering you.  Before you
accuse me of making false statements, perhaps you ought to follow up
with that other ISP.

   In the future, you may want to try being a bit more patient.

Yeah, I should lower my expectations a bit.


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