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North American Network Operators Group Date Prev | Date Next | Date Index | Thread Index | Author Index | Historical Re: The Mother of all Solutions (Was Class B for Sale or Rent)
hang on there while i'm actually *not* necessarily against your proposal for providers to "just take over," i do think you're being a bit rash. specifically, if you want to do something like this, why not actually propose the *way* that the "seized" addresses would be allocated such that your proposal results in a *less* chaotic future? for example, why not try a test run of some of the market-based approaches others have suggested? the most promising one, in my opinion, is scott huddle's proposal for a market for both addresses and routing table slots; registries (which cover the address part) would simply record who has what address while the providers (and whatever other third- party businesses which might spring up) would deal with the routing slot part. this assumes certain mechanisms within bgp (or some other ~routing protocol) to reserve slots (kind of like an RSVP for routing [as opposed to forwarding]), but i think some of the direct implications, as well as some of the fallout, would be very good and would show the internet maturing as a service. i also think it would help technically by forcing us to answer the question: "given a time and a technology, what does 'full' mean for a routing table?" in other words, if you're gonna take over the world, don't just do more of the same... just my US$0.02 /jws > Let me add a word to Brett's comments. This IS a world-scale > economy. > > If a LARGE GROUP OF NETWORK PROVIDERS (that's us, btw, nanog), > decided TOMORROW that WE will assign address space and route to > it, there is no force in the world that will charge for it, or > be able to change it. > > Here's the Ehud Scenario: > 1. Tomorrow Paul Vixie gets a pirate hair up his dec alpha > and puts in 64.in-addr.arpa. through 126.in-addr.arpa. > in F. > 2. We start assigning nets from this block (64/8-126/8). > 3. We start routing to this block (ok, I don't own a backbone > yet, but let me use "we" meaning nanog for now ;) > > Is this unlawful? No. There's no law about announcing routes, > nor about delegating them in private internets. For practical > purposes, NANOG members form a private internet. > > Is this unethical? Some would say 'Sure, only the InterNIC and > IANA can assign IP addresses.' Some tell me this thinking is > obsolete. Jim Fleming would salivate, and Karl Deninger would > laugh. Well, maybe. > > Is this impractical? I dunno. I figure we could bribe Paul with > $ 2000 per assignment regardless of size (after all, two NS entries > are all the same cost). After about 52 /24s, he'd double his > yearly retainer income (all figures guesses with no real basis) > and probably be able to retire to Caymans. (That's a Brett Scenario). > > Oh yeah, it's my idea, so I want anyone who gets an allocation from > this scheme to send me a bottle of single-malt Scotch. > > Let me know if I've left something out. > > Ehud > > p.s. If I've pissed off anybody in this post, send me a private > note via us mail. Be sure to include a bottle of single malt > Scotch or your note will be returned. Just like email to [email protected] l > > > >So that I'm not misunderstood let me say this: > > >1: I do not neccessarily agree with the sale of IPs, personally, I don't > >think its a good idea > > >2: This is a real world economy now, outdated academic practices which are > >currently being enforced are as wrong as the sale of IPs. > > >3: Wether you, ARIN, or anyone else likes it or not, IPs are for all intent s > >and purposes a resellable commodity, otherwise ARIN et all can (ala Jim > >Flemming) be called on as being a Monopoly. > > >4: The simple fact of the matter is that the RFCs are not at any time, the > >law of the land. They are at best guidelines and good ideas set down for > >others to follow, but there is no rule stating that you _must_ follow them. > > >5: Before you start chasing wild geese selling Class B address space I > >suggest you go back and check on all those folks that got space long before > >there were any 'restrictions and justifications'. I have no doubt that ther e > >is a veritable feast of IPs sitting unused at MIT, USC, and other such > >institutions that would be better used elsewhere instead of sitting in a > >corner like a dusty grad student. > > >6: Finally and most importantly, stop pretending you still live in the worl d > >of happy academia where everyone is willing to follow the rules you set dow n > >just because you're the proffessor and they're the student. This just does > >not work anymore, you may scoff at people like Jim Flemming but for each on e > >you knock down there is another one to learn from his mistakes and take his > >place. Do not pretend you can sit idle and call people who don't fall in > >line behind you names so that you can sit back in your dusty chair and > >pretend nothing is wrong. The internet as a whole is growing at an unthough t > >of pace and your failure to keep up will not be fixed by being tight assed > >and making it harder on those that follow. Eventually someone else will tak e > >the forefront and throw you off your high horse like yesterdays newspaper. > >You purport to be leaders of the internet, then its about time you acted > >like it and start to solve the problems instead of trying to make the > >problems go away by being ignorant of reality. > > > >[-] Brett L. Hawn (blh @ nol dot net) [-] > >[-] Networks On-Line - Houston, Texas [-] > >[-] 713-467-7100 [-] > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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